The Big Six Energy Suppliers Vs The Rest

Having just decided to change to a fixed 1 year tariff I offer 2 comments as a result of trawling the various sites:-
1. The number of different tariffs from even a single Company is becoming too great.
2. It is becoming ever more difficult to actually obtain the unit costs for these deals - " check our prices" links frequently lead to comparison pages where you have to enter your details; even after this you rarely get what you want ie the raw price per unit data.SWALEC are particularly bad - I still haven't managed to find actual tariffs on their site!!

This is blatant profiteering - first of all these companies pay the wholesale price for a fraction of their total energy supply (most of it comes from very long term supply deals) so the wholesale price is largely irrelevent.

Secondly, these companies retail divisions buy their energy from their own wholesale companies - guess where they declare the profit!

I read somewhere that energy costs on mainland Europe are as much as 30% less than in the U.K. Add foreign ownership of some of these companies to the equation and I sense that someone is subsidising their own domestic market at the expense of the market here in the U.K. This problem is further compounded by the fact that viable energy alternatives are almost non existent in the U,K.

Ancientaviator is right; there's little choice any more but to reduce your consumption.

Ancientaviator and housebug are both right - there is little sense in chasing around looking for cheaper tariffs. I think this is a conjuring trick to distract public attention from the real problem. For the cost of two aircraft carriers or of the Min of Defence refurbished London HQ (£2 billion +) we could have tidal and wind power enough to make a big difference and on our own doorstep, not at the end of a politically sensitive pipeline from Siberia. I'm replacing an old gas fire by a solid fuel stove in 2 weeks time which I hope will keep me and the house warm through next winter and cut my gas bill significantly. I might even be able to use it to make toast!

Last time I changed supplier, two or three years ago, I had a hard time finding the price of electricity and gas on supplier's websites. I ended up 'phoning my supplier and asking them - and wish that I had known about "saynoto0870.com" back then. I even had a hard time using Uswitch to get the detail that I wanted. In the end I went in blind and accepted their recommendation. This time - I am going to switch soon - I think I shall try to be a bit more rigorous.

But doesn't all this political to-do with Russia make you nervous about the price and security of our gas supply. When we replace our old gas boiler I think I will try and design the installation myself to "future-proof" it. I am thinking of solar water heating and dual electric immersion heaters.

There is one word for all these unecessary fuel price rises, when all the companies are making millions in profit, and that is "ROBBERY".
I had Solar power fitted in July and although I should not think it would pay for itself in my lifetime (as it is reckoned average 15 years to get your money back) I have used NO GAS at all since it was installed and get piping hot water all I need. I use my microwave to cook by mostly. I personally think that is the only way to go at the moment and I am sure that the price of installation will come down in time as will they improve the system to include heating as well. I did change to a capped rate earlier on this year, so am stable until Oct next year. Anyone who can possibly afford it, have it installed, it will help your fuel reduce your fuel bills no end. Everyone I know have told me that their bills are so low since the Solar has been installed.

The real reason for these price increases could possibly be the fact that by September 2009 energy companies must ensure that people with pre-payment meters are not charged more that those on a standard tariff. By increasing the standard tariff they will not have to reduce the cost of energy to pre pay customers and any loss in income caused by people switching to cheaper internet tariffs will be offset by those who are unable to access the internet and must remain of the standard tariff.

Just a [short?] point on the invitation to install solar power at home by noony29.

Installing solar power at home is [almost] prohibitively expensive. Did you ever wonder why?

These devices are priced in such way as to enable the manufacturers to reap maximum profit. They cost much much less to produce.

Everyone knows that the margins in some shops are 600% - or as much as the market will take. If they can, they will sell them even dearer...

Where is the forward thinking of the government to mass produce solar panels and sell them at cost to whoever is willing to buy them, go green and save the planet? How is that for a carbon offsetting initiative?

Oh, but the chances of that happening? Ziltch - because it doesn't give power leverage (or even profit) to the senior civil servants (aka Whitehall Mandarins, the people really in charge of the country, or have you not watched "Yes Minister" lately)

Yet another point - who do you think has the know-how to manufacture high quality wind turbines or solar panels? (companies related to the energy sector or charity shops?)

Do you still wonder why commercial installations are so expensive that they are not going to pay for themselves in our lifetime? - Because someone is willing to pay that sort of money...

Now, who came up with those 'green' initiatives and who decides on a 'budget' for carbon offsetting? Our Government or the colombian druglords?

But why are we (60 million people) made to do something about the climate change, when 2.1 billion people (China and India combined) don't even know that what the word 'climate' means? And that before we even count the holy cows, whose flatulence contributes to the CO2 emission greatly...

I just want to know how does the average Chinese person survive on 500 dollars per year, when in UK we can hardly see the week go by with that amount... there is gotta be something fundamentally wrong with the prices in this country and the ways our Lords rule us

Nice rant moonbear1 and I thought I was a cynic! Oh, just a minor point, but most of the GBP (Great British Public), who are old enough to have watched Yes Minister, still think it was a BBC comedy series. Whereas it was actually a training series for the Civil (Dis)Service

Many Canadians and Americans heat their homes with oil fuelled furnaces (forced air heating). The ridiculous cost of oil has sent the alternative industry into overdrive. Heat pumps (which somoeone here mentioned) are becoming very popular as you can see your heating costs drop as much as 50% or more on an oil furnace. My dad, on the other hand, simply switched to a wood burning furnace (yes I know, nice if you live in the wilds of New Brunswick, Canada) and saw his heating costs drop by a full 2/3. Brings back the point I made in my first post about the lack of viable alternatives in the UK. Even if you can get wood or coal at a decent price, you may not be able to use it because of "no burn" legislatin etc... We can't wait to move back to Nova Scotia in the new year! After seven years, I've had quite enough of "Rip Off Britain"

NickTaylor42 must be lucky - his French supplier Soregies is a rarity in France as it is a long standing independent municipal gas and electricity supplier dating back to 1923. Virtually everyone else in France uses Electricite and Gaz de France (EDF-GDF)though other companies can now compete for domestic customers... in fact my understanding is Soregies and a similar organisation in Grenoble are now linked in Alterna to provide direct competition across France to EDF/GDF

First, to Hambledon and RoderickEaton, the world's scientific community has concluded that it is 90% certain that global warming is due to human activity. These are people who, frankly, know more about it than you or I. I'd like my grandchildren and their grandchildren to have a decent life: so please, let's work to reduce global warming and go with the 90% rather than the 10%. If you were offered a ticket on a train that was very cheap, but you were told expert engineers said it had a 90% chance of bursting into flames and killing everyone on board, would you take it?

Second, I agree altogether with brewerDave: I was talked into switching to a one-year fixed deal with EDF, but found it almost impossible to find E.ON's current prices (my current supplier, but increased since my last bill so the prices there were no longer valid). And this is the problem with comparison sites: prices change so rapidly that it's hard for them to be accurate. One of them once told me npower would be cheaper than my present supplier.. who was npower!
Back in the Bad Old Days you had to pay what British Gas and your local Electicity Board chose to charge. The problem with deregulation is that the energy companies are, well, deregulated.... For me the answer is better insulation, both for the house (I've had the loft done, don't have cavity walls and it's all double glazed) and for me (good excuse to buy a new jumper...), then turn the thermostat down a bit. But maybe the ultimate answer is not to live in chilly Newcastle but to emigrate to Torremolinos where they have sunshine about 350 days a year!

Thank you apseudonym, I'm off to Google it and find out more!

The easiest and cheapest way for most householders to reduce their energy bills is by improving the energy efficiency of their home. Most types of insulation are low-cost, and much of the work can be DIY. No-one should consider expensive solar panels or other means of energy generation until they've done everything possible to meet (and preferably exceed) the required insulation levels. Otherwise, you're just paying to heat the atmosphere, regardless of whether you buy-in energy or generate it yourself.

We're part of the EC, moaning about prices is one of our leading national pastimes but can you find any information easily on the internet about what our European neighbours pay? Nope, is the answer.

Can journalists spend a bit more time looking in-depth at how we Brits really fare compared to other European nations and are we justified in bemoaning high prices instead of filling our papers and airwaves with stories of a presidential campaign thousands of miles away.

PS I thought it was complicated enough in the UK trying to work out our energy bill - just thankful I don't live in France. Seems like you need an engineering and mathematical degree to work out all the diffrent codes and tariffs. Then again, I guess it keeps some French person in a job.

PPS And why is it so difficult to get hold of unit prices for gas and electricity?

PPPS Having finally gotten hold of unit prices for my region and shoved in my own actual and seasonal usage into a giant spreadsheet I can confirm that the most accurate energy price comparison tool on the internet is uswitch.com. It calculated my actual bills to within a few pence. Very impressive! It has the most accurate assumptionsn and takes into accounts discounts, etc.

1 Solid fuel is only cheaper than mains gas if you cut your own firewood.

2 Yes French electricity is cheaper than ours because they use nuclear energy to generate a large proportion of it.
Yes making nuclear generators pay a levy to support renewables is completely unjustified.
How mad we were to sell off our nuclear constructors, just as it was becoming obvious to all that renwables alone would not save us without unacceptably lowering the standard of living, and so to let the Japanese profit from our expertise

4 However renewables do have a role to play, but not in the provision of base load. Putting a levy on fossil fuel generators is justified.

5 On our own, our cutting of CO2 emissions will not solve rapid climate change problems,however we cannot expect others to cut their emissions if we are not prepared to cut ours. We all need to be involved.

Does anyone know what happens if you want to switch your energy supplier but are in debit with them? Can the debit get transferred across to the new provider? Do you get charged interest on your debit with energy companies?
I have been with npower for years and have never switched. However they always slightly undercharge me, leading to a bill for around £300 at the end of every 6 month period (which is when they calculate it). This means that unless I pay £300 extra I can't switch. A very dodgy practise if you ask me.