Why You Can't Buy Vanguard's Low-Cost Trackers

Published in Investing Strategy on 25 September 2009

Vanguard's index trackers are dirt cheap but not yet widely available.

As most readers will by now be aware, the arrival in the UK of low-cost American fund giant Vanguard has transformed the cost of investing in one of the Fool's all-time favourite investments -- the index tracker.

But it's fair to say that in the eyes of many investors, Vanguard's arrival has caused some confusion, with one fundamental question cropping up again and again.

As comments left by readers of previous Fool articles where I've touched on Vanguard's offerings have made clear, many investors are struggling to understand how to actually invest in a Vanguard tracker. Unlike most tracker providers, Vanguard doesn't sell directly, and most fund supermarkets don't offer Vanguard products.

How, then, do you actually buy Vanguard's fabled tracker? If you've a relationship with an IFA with access to one of the nine fee-based IFA-only platforms carrying Vanguard funds, there's no problem. You pay your money, and you make your choice: Vanguard, please.

But many Fools, understandably, are wary of IFAs. And so far only one retail platform has said it will carry Vanguard funds: Alliance Trust Savings, the savings arm of FTSE 100 investment trust Alliance Trust (LSE: ATST).

I spoke to Peter Robertson, head of retail at Vanguard UK, and some interesting perspectives on all this emerged. The really interesting news is that Vanguard's go-to-market stance may -- once again -- be ahead of the pack.

Buying direct

First, though, let's clear up the buying-direct issue. Vanguard, explains Mr Robertson, is owned by its customers. Simplistically, the Vanguard 'management company', which administers the investment giant's vast range of funds, exists solely to service Vanguard investors, and sells its services to them at cost.

In short, there are no other shareholders to pay profits to, and the business need therefore make no profits. And this has had a major bearing on how the company has approached the UK marketplace.

"We're new to the UK, and as a customer-owned business, any money we spend building the UK business will have come from our US customers," points out Mr Robertson. And Vanguard, he adds, owes a duty of care to those customers to be careful with their money.

"Even though Vanguard is best-known for 'retail-direct' selling, the safest low-cost option for entering the UK market is the one we're pursuing," he says. "Retail-direct is an expensive option to set up and deliver: it's something we ultimately want to do in the UK, but we need to be confident that enough people will use it."

In the meantime, if you want to invest in Vanguard funds, you have to go elsewhere.

Commission? No way.

Which brings us to fund supermarkets and their investment platforms.

As we've written before, the Financial Services Authority's Retail Distribution Review (RDR) is going to see some wide-ranging changes being made to the way that the financial services industry pays (and receives) 'hidden' commissions.

Philosophically, almost right from its inception in 1975, Vanguard has been against such payments, and won't pay them. As a result, Vanguard -- like HSBC -- believe that its approach to the market is 'RDR-ready'.

The major fund supermarkets, though, are anything but RDR-ready. Their entire business model relies on charging investors nothing to buy funds, and then receiving a 'trail commission' from the funds in question.

In short, from a fund supermarket's point of view, offering Vanguard funds makes no sense, because they would earn no revenue from it. Worse, if investors switched out of funds that paid a commission and into Vanguard funds that didn't, they'd be materially worse off.

Of the fund supermarkets that Vanguard approached, only Alliance Trust was willing to carry its funds -- even though Vanguard wouldn't have paid them any money. Alliance's stance, believes Mr Robertson, owes much to its heritage as an investment trust: many of its customers are also shareholders, and why shouldn't Alliance act in the best interests of its own shareholders?

So near, yet so far

An impasse? Not quite -- or at least, it depends who you talk to.

One fund supermarket came close to signing on the dotted line, reveals Mr Robertson. And talks have continued -- on and off -- ever since, he adds. He's not at liberty to name the platform in question, but describes it as 'a very customer-driven business'. And some of these customers, it seems, have been asking pointed questions as to why they can't invest with Vanguard.

Now, from the clues presented, I think I've identified the fund platform in question. This week, I've spoken with them, and it's clear that -- for public consumption at least -- they aren't going to change their stance.

Clearer charges hold the key

Here's what I think is going to happen. RDR is undeniably going to make charges more explicit -- a move that Mr Robertson endorses.

"Our argument is that platform costs should be clearer -- and then investors will have a better-informed choice about which platform to use," he points out. "Longer-term, investors will be paying something to the fund manager and something to the platform -- rather than just something to the fund manager, a unknown proportion of which comes back." Overall, he emphasises, investors should be paying less, but they'll be paying two lots of fees, not one.

And my guess is that as RDR-mandated changes come closer, fund platforms will see the wisdom in jumping the gun. In short, expect Vanguard funds to become rather more widely available -- but expect also to pay your fund platform of choice for the privilege of buying and holding Vanguard funds through them.

Will Vanguard's own direct offering be available by then? We'll have to wait and see.

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Comments

The opinions expressed here are those of the individual writers and are not representative of The Motley Fool. If you spot any comments that are unsuitable hit the flag to alert our moderators.

LordEssex 25 Sep 2009 , 7:08pm

It's about time the Fool wrote about platforms and explain exactly what they do for investors and IFAs. More importantly, as this article touches on, what they stop people doing.

rhinestone2 25 Sep 2009 , 10:30pm

Excellent article. I've been curious as to why so few providers were making Vanguard funds available.

On another note I'm having trouble establishing which indexes Vanguard are actually tracking e.g. one of several examples from their website 'The Vanguard FTSE U.K. Equity Income Index Fund (the “Fund”) seeks to track the performance of the FTSE U.K. Equity Income Index (the "Index")'

I've tried looking for a description of this index of the ftse website but it's just not clear which index this refers to.

Great to these cheaper tracker funds but more clarity Vanguard please!

lemondy 25 Sep 2009 , 11:31pm

Stop being coy!

I don't see why Hargreaves Lansdown don't carry the Vanguard funds, and I presume they are the fund platform which "nearly signed" but which you don't name.

H-L already carry some funds on which they charge 0.5%+VAT on top of the TER, so I presume this is cases where they don't get any (enough) trail commission (the fidelity FTSE tracker is one such example). Don't see how that's much different to the vanguard funds from the platform's perspective.

uutasyw 26 Sep 2009 , 5:46pm

Excellent article which explains a number of the question I had.

While it is annoyingly difficult to invest with Vanguard at the moment I fully understand their stand point.

I'll stick with my Fidelity tracker for the moment but will keep an eye on Vanguard for the future.

Iniq 28 Sep 2009 , 12:35pm

lemondy has just written my post for me ...

Can't see why H-L don't sell the Vanguard funds, at (say) 0.5% annual commission, like they do with some other funds. Certainly I would agree with the description of H-L as very customer-focussed.

PeterDuffy 28 Sep 2009 , 1:29pm

Yes it would be brilliant to see HL, selftrade and/or other platforms provide the vanguard funds. I suspect it's only be a matter of time one of them does.

Lemondy and Iniq - half a percent surcharge would make Vanguard funds overly expensive, altho HL cap their annual fees at 200 GBPs PA. This surcharge would make Vanguard's TER more expensive than the HSBC funds that HL already offers.

That said, I LOVE Vanguard's low-cost ethos and look forward to being able to invest in their funds asap.

Incidentally, HL allows you to invest in Vanguards NYSE-listed ETFs. I hold their emerging market and technology ETFS in my HL SIPP.

SunnyFoolster 28 Sep 2009 , 2:24pm

This article is useful. It's a bit frustrating that the retail side of funds is so far behind the product side.

I'm also frustated with HSBC who made a great move by reducing their tracker fund annual charge, then didn't follow up with an easy way to directly invest. On the site I can only find the FTSE 100 and all share (and these show the old charges). I know you can get these through H-L however I feel they may start to charge an extra 0.5% annually.

zeroth 28 Sep 2009 , 2:30pm

A useful article for which I thank you; I agree with LordEssex's remarks above.

jas11 28 Sep 2009 , 2:30pm

There is a discount broker called Investor Profile that makes the Transact platform available to normal members of the public. They will act as your 'IFA' so you can have access to the Vanguard funds. They also charge a straight fee for their service so are RDR friendly as they rebate all the commissions - initial and annual.

MDW1954 28 Sep 2009 , 2:44pm

SunnyFoolster:

You need to go to http://www.assetmanagement.hsbc.com/uk
to access the full range of HSBC trackers.

Malcolm Wheatley

westwinds3 28 Sep 2009 , 3:51pm

I have had peps and isas with Alliance Trust Savings for many years, and definitely recommend them. The charges are reasonable and trading is easy. I have just one niggle that they charge you if you want to take up a rights issue. Definitely worth considering.

ajooba 29 Sep 2009 , 12:00am



Nice article.

lemondy : are you saying Fidelity MoneyBuilder FTSE Tracker costs the 0.3% TER PLUS the 0.5% + VAT if you go thru HL ? I thought it was just 0.3% and no more charges.

Assuming I am right that Fidelity FTSE AllShare tracker has just a 0.3% TER, the Vanguard one at 0.5% upfront charge plus 0.15% charge will work out cheaper over the long run. But then there is the £12.50 brokerage fee if you go thru Alliance Trust, so it doesnt make sense to drip. But if you drip 3 times a year (every 4 months) and if you have large amonts to invest, I guess it works out fine over the long term.


mhlgreen2 : Alliance Trust charges are 12.50 a trade, sounds expensive to me, especially if you are drip feeding say £500 every month

I dont know why we still have stamp duty on shares in this country. I am fed up of paying 100 different kinds of taxes. It is high time we wake up and elect a Libetarian, less-government, less-taxes kinda govt. I guess it will never happen here.

uutasyw, Fidelity Tracker is good, (0.30% TER), but what are you doing about the various asset classes one needs in a portfolio ? Such as bonds, international markets etc ?

PeterDuffy : May I ask what NYSE listed ETFs are you referring to ? Please note that from HMRC tax standpoint, foreign ETFs are treated not like stocks/shares but as mutual funds and if the foreign fund does not have "distributor status", you will be taxed income tax rates, not CGT. This could make it very suboptimal for you if you are high rate tax payer. Most of the Barclays iShares based in Dublin do have distributor status so thats fine, but for for example Vanguard's US based VTI (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index fund ETF), SPY etc.
Check out these links :
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/offshorefunds/dist_fundapps.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/offshorefunds/dist_fundlist.htm

jas11 : I am interested to know more. Last I checked about Transact, they charged 0.5% yearly fee on your investments. Would you please share the exact charges with us ? Thanks.

Thanks

jas11 29 Sep 2009 , 7:00am

It's probably not going to be the answer you were looking for but individual IFAs negotiate with Transact the fee they chrage their clients. So the fee Transact charges will vary depending on the IFA. They do also have discount schemes in place if you link accounts with other members of your household e.g. your partner.

The key with Transact is that once you are in you can buy pretty much any type of investment you want e.g. funds, shares, ETFs, investment trusts, gilts etc. and open a range of different accounts e.g. ISA, SIPP, Personal Pension, General Investment Account etc.

I think more platforms should make themselves available to people that don't want or need an IFA. So far no one has made that move but Transact do at least let their clients invest online directly themselves.

ajooba 29 Sep 2009 , 11:59am

Quote : "Retail-direct is an expensive option to set up and deliver: it's something we ultimately want to do in the UK, but we need to be confident that enough people will use it."

How expensive is Retail-direct to set up and deliver ? Way back in 1976 when Vanguard started in US, it must have been equally expensive in US as well ? or is it a volume thing ? or specific to UK ? Fidelity MoneyBuilder UK Index is available directly thru Fidelity right ?

Thanks

mikefour 29 Sep 2009 , 11:48pm

Informative article. Typical of the financial institutions to take as much as possible from the investing public. Could the FOOL do an article sometime on DRIPs with individual companies? I know these are available in the U.S.
Thanks

crudcutter 30 Sep 2009 , 3:51pm

I see there are some experts posting here; so I have a question:

What is the best supermarket/platform for straight forward seasonal investing?

I.E. Doing what Chris Dillow (Chronic investor) does, whicg is switch between a cash fund and an FTSE All Share fund on October 31st and March 31st.

I have heared talk that it is possible do do this at almost 0% cost - but how/where ?

The only place I have seen close to this as possible is at Fidelity.

Ian

crudcutter 30 Sep 2009 , 3:53pm

A point about using Alliance for Vanguard. Larger Investors in the Alliance Investment trust get reduced dealing rates. But you need a lot of shares to make a big dent in the £12.50

ajooba 01 Oct 2009 , 11:41am


> You need a lot of shares to make a big dent in the 12.50

I agree. I would think one would need at least 4 to 5 funds to build a decent portfolio. Thats £60 rght there. Now, even if one has a large lumpsum to invest and no further investments, it might be okay, but even with £60,000 to invest, thats 0.10%. I am not a fan of investing a huge lumpsum at a single point in time [That point in time could unfortunately be Oct 1929 in USA, or 1989 in Japan, or, as in my case, S&P 500 index on Dec 31, 1999 in the USA, which I am yet to recover. Been 10 years and counting]. So if you drip-feed say 3 times a year, you are looking at £60 times 3 = £180.

and then you would invest the ISA amount of say 10,000 ever year. Again £200 trading fee for £10,000 is 2%.

So the upfront costs are indeed high. I dont know what is the target customer Vanguard is shooting for with this kind of strange arrangement. Maybe people with very large sums to invest. But then, if I had half million to invest, why would I go with Alliance direct ? I would directly go to Vanguard and build a 4 to 5 fund portfolio.

Right now, it looks like it is hard to beat Barclays iShares ETF based portfolio. Go with sharebuilder, and you can even get £1.50 per trade. With that you can assemble a decent portfolio, drip feed, buy and hold.

I think we really need to put the numbers down and compare the costs between Vanguard+Alliance Trust vs iShares ETF. Maybe over the very long term, Vanguard will come out on top due to the low expenses, but the upfront costs are not that low.

Here are some links for UK investor :
http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/UK_Investing
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26976
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22941

alahong 01 Oct 2009 , 7:11pm

Hi As a H&L customer I thought I would ask them if it was true that they had been unable to come to terms with Vanguard here's the reply I got

Thank you for your email regarding trading in Vanguard funds.

Unfortunately it is not possible to invest in Vanguard funds within the Hargreaves Lansdown Vantage Service. This is due to the fact that there is not sufficient interest in these funds from our clients for Hargreaves Lansdown to be able to offer these products. We will monitor the situation regarding the interest for Vanguard funds in the future and notify you via the Investment Times and our website if our position changes. Please note I will also forward your comments to our Client Feedback team for future consideration.

I trust this information is of use to you however should you have further questions do not hesitate to contact the Investment Helpdesk on 0117 900 9000.

ajooba 02 Oct 2009 , 11:41am



Thanks jas11. Would you mind breaking down the cost for us, if we approached "Investor Profile" on the Transact platform.

Let us take £10,000 ISA contribution for example. Suppose we invest in only Vanguard UK Equity index. Suppose we invest the amnount in 2 installments of £5000 each.

Vanguard Cost = 0.5% of £10,000 + 0.15% every year.
Alliance Trust cost = £12.50 x 2 = £25 per year in my above example.
"Investor Profile" / Transact Cost = ???

really appreciate if you could share this, if you dont mind.

Cheers

PeterDuffy 05 Oct 2009 , 11:30am

Hi Alahong,

I got a similar 'insufficient interest' email from HL. Disappointing. Come on Hargreaves Lansdown - please make these funds available! Maybe Selftrade will make them available first? If so, I'll be moving...

PeterDuffy 05 Oct 2009 , 11:57am

Ajooba,

Thank you very much for your interesting feedback. I have the Vanguard Emerging Market (ticker -VWO) and the Vanguard Technology fund (ticker - VGT) in my HL SIPP. As you correctly point out, neither has distributor status.

I thought that because they are both held in my SIPP, they would be exempt from income tax and CGT. Do you have a different understanding please?

I owe you a beer or two...

ajooba 05 Oct 2009 , 3:01pm

PeterDuffy, of course !! If you are in a SIPP or ISA, I am sure you are ok. For some reason that escaped my mind.

Cheers !

ajooba 06 Oct 2009 , 12:55am

I called up Alliance Trust and clarified. If you look at http://www.alliancetrust.co.uk/alliancetrustsavings/pdfs/list_of_funds.pdf and the tables contained therein, counting columns from the right, the 3rd column equals 5th column minus 4th column.
That is, [ ATS Initial Charge = Standard Initial Charge - ATS Discount on initial charge. ]

Therefore, in the case of Vanguard UK Index, standard initial charge is 0.5% (charged by Vanguard) and ATS doesnt discount that, so the initial charge the customer pays is 0.5% - So, this is NOT an extra 0.5% on top of the Vanguard 0.5%. Sorted.

Yes it does cost £12.50 per transaction per fund, like brokerage commission. But you can hold Alliance Trust company shares and get a discount on this. Details are on Alliance Trust website. But this may not work for most, as you almost have to hold 30 grand worth of Alliance Trust shares to get a 50% discount on the £12.50.

Another way to get around the £12.50 is to do a direct debit in which case it costs £5 per fund. It doesnt have to be monthly. It seems it can be quarterly. this doesnt sound like such a bad idea, because if you DCA thrice a year, and you have 2 equity funds, 2 bond funds, you are paying £5 x 4 x 3 = £60 a year and you sort of get around the volatility issue also, three times a year may be better odds than buying a lumpsum once a year. (or maybe not, but surely feels better than buying a lumpsum and watching the market tank 50%).

If I go the direct debit route, I havent figured out is how to use new money to rebalance. With direct debit, you set up a set amount into set number of funds periodically. I am not sure they will allow you to change this too often as then they will probably figure out you are playing the system to try to get around the £12.50 issue. Maybe I will call them and ask this point delicately, but they'll prolly kick me out :)

Another thing : If you choose "accumulation" mode, When dividends accumulate to £100, they re-invest automatically but charge you £5.00. So you are basically getting (and reinivesting) only 95% of your dividends.

The charges are listed here : http://www.alliancetrust.co.uk/alliancetrustsavings/pdfs/charges_schedule.pdf

There are no other charges. No annual maintenence, ISA charge etc etc. So it doesnt look too bad.

Just sharing the info with others.

On another note, I must say I am a tad disappointed with Vanguard's offer. Initially Vanguard's arrival in UK seemed like a breath of fresh air. I was expecting they would offer funds similar to what they offer in the U.S, spanning various asset classes : Small Cap, Value, International Small Cap, International Value etc.

Now I am not saying everyone should tilt to small/value, far from it. It is good to have access to those asset classes, so we can get exposure if we want to. For example I can go 70% total stock market, 30% small-value. Otherwise if I get total stock market, it is all mostly largecaps.

Instead they are just playing to the UK market and offering funds similar to every Tom,Dick,Harry mutual fund company out here by offering "Income investing", "Japan Stock Index" etc. Even my pension fund Standard life offers these sorts of funds as standard ones. Whats the deal with Japan investing opportunities being offered to UK investors ? Boy, they must be trying hard for 20 years.

DFA (Dimensional Fund Advisors) seems to be the only company which offers funds based on its core philosophies and research no matter which country they open shop in, instead of playing to the local crowd just to look like everybody else in the party.

lemondy 13 Oct 2009 , 2:26pm

FWIW. I believe the cheapest way to be small-time UK passive investor at the moment is to use Interactive Investor's Stock+Shares ISA:

a) buy the cheap index tracker funds (HSBC, Fidelity, L&G)
b) otherwise buy ETFs using the regular dealing service (£1.50/buy, £10/sell, currently free to buy)
c) no annual ISA admin fee
d) no fee to hold stocks in the ISA
e) no inactivity fee
f) 1% charge only to reinvest divis from the ETFs

pedro2616 19 Nov 2010 , 1:12pm

For the very small investor the Vanguard UK index Tracker story is all hype. As soon as you look into it in detail the intermediaries (platforms) also take their annual management charges and dealing fees (well Alliance Trust might be better than Investor Profile), so this breath of fresh air is not at all what it seems (unless you have £100,000 to invest direct).

What a disappointment and waste of my time, with a bit more research this sort of could have been included in the article, but hey then it wouldn't have been so newsworthy.

You are better off with the trackers with the higher AMC that you can invest in directly without the other leaches getting a slice.

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