When To Sell Value Shares

Published in Investing Strategy on 3 July 2009

When should the value investor exit a trade?

Having invested in a value share because it satisfied your purchase criteria, you should then switch immediately to a sell frame of mind regarding that particular play. 

The sale may be some time away because value requires lots of patience. If you are lucky it may be pretty soon, but either way your aim is now to dump the share as soon as it makes sense to do so according to your particular views. 

So as soon as you enter, start looking for the exit. The general idea is to have your cash at risk for as little time as possible.

The price paid is irrelevant

Note that once you are in, the purchase price is virtually irrelevant. I know that you can't forget it, it's always there lurking in the recesses of your mind as well as in your records. But you must try not to let it affect your sell decision, because that decision needs to be based on a repeated appraisal of the share as it stands now, not as it did when you bought it or how much profit or loss it is making.

Emotionally, selling is naturally welcome if you are showing a nice profit but it can hurt if you are showing a big loss, making you possibly reluctant to take the hit. But if you are a regular value trader, as with any trading strategy, you will sometimes have to take the punches.

Sell when the value is outed

My idea is that you sell a value share when it no longer exhibits sufficient value. That can happen either when it is showing a profit or a loss. You bought the share on a certain price/earnings ratio, yield, price to book or whatever criteria you choose and should hold as long as it remains within a certain range of the levels you find attractive. Don't forget though that these ratios are relative to the market or sector. Here's what I mean.

Suppose a buy a value share on a P/E of 7 against a background sector comparison of 10. The price rises quickly to give a P/E of 11 on the same eps forecast, a decent gain of 57% in price but forget that. Should you now sell? 

Well, it depends what has happened to your comparison P/E. If the latter is still around 10, then value has evaporated in your share and it's probably a sell, based on that criterion in isolation. But suppose the sector has also risen strongly and now trades on a P/E of 15, what then? At 11, your share is still at a roughly similar P/E discount to the sector as when you bought it. In other words the relative value hasn't really been outed yet despite the strong rise. 

To do that, the P/E should go to around the sector mean. Then I'd sell. Yes, it may go even higher, but always leave something for the next guy, don't try to find the exact top, that's not for pure value players because a share that's dearer than its peers cannot really be described as value.

What happens when things go wrong

Now take the less than attractive situation where your play goes wrong because any or all of eps, dividends, assets, debts turn out to be not what were forecast when you bought. You find an ostensibly attractive share on a P/E discount to its peers and go in. The analysts' predictions go awry dramatically, so much so that the company makes no profits at all but delivers large losses, abandons dividends etc. and the share price dives. 

You're down 50% or more. What to do? Bin it I'd say, thereby releasing whatever cash you can salvage for your next play.

There is a huge emotional temptation in these losing cases to hang on, hoping for recovery. And if you are lucky that may work in time. But my point is that unless there is some highly redeeming feature in the share like serious asset cover, you are no longer holding a value play and being a value player means holding value shares and only value shares. 

Once the value has evaporated, even in a bad way by losing fundamental qualities in contrast to the good way by a rising price as in the earlier case above, it's time to say goodbye. In both cases though, the similarity is that it is the disappearing value that has made a sell desirable.

I've oversimplified the above by using P/E to make the point but in practice you need to look at all the criteria to make your judgement. For example, the P/E could go non-value but the share might still look good on price to book, yield or net cash or other combinations of various value measures.

Big bad banks

My most recent example of a hit like this is the big banks. 

There was a time last year at which they seemed ridiculously cheap. The disaster scenario that eventually happened just didn't seem that likely. It was always a possibility of course, even the biggest shares can go under, but I saw it on the balance of probabilities as having much more upside than down. 

Finally, it all went wrong and how, as we all know now. I got that one wrong and dumped at a large loss once it became clear just how bad things really were. 

I could have hung on and actually I do believe that shares like Lloyds Banking Group (LSE: LLOY) and Royal Bank of Scotland (LSE: RBS) will in the long run recover handsomely. I would not advise eternity players like those who follow the High Yield Portfolio strategy to sell. But we're talking value trading here and my money in this strategy was, I believe, better off elsewhere, painful though it was.

Never look back

Whether you made a profit or loss on a value trade, never look back to see if you would have done better if you had stayed in. It doesn't matter, move on. The essential thing is that you did the right thing by selling when you did according to your rules. You bought what you saw as a good value share and you sold what was no longer such a good value share. 

This can mean that you might sell too soon, something I've done several times with a sharply rising share. By chance, someone actually said to me today about Inchcape (LSE: INCH), one of my Fool value plays from years ago, that it went on to go many times higher after I sold. 

So be it, but it wasn't rising then as a value share. If the next guy made a lot out of it, good for him, he's not a value player. And incidentally it's since collapsed, I hope the next guy didn't hang in too long.

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Comments

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lotontech 03 Jul 2009 , 7:34am

Great article Stephen!

I'm pleased to see an article that discusses when to sell a share (exit a position) as a counterbalance to all those articles on what shares to buy.

Having myself studied and written about the effectiveness -- or otherwise -- of simple screening for dividend yield, P/E, and PEG, I'm also pleased that you pointed out the problem of relying on analysts' forecasts of fundamental ratios.

Yes, a refreshing article.

Tony Loton

mrwhits 03 Jul 2009 , 12:33pm

Hi TMFpyad, an interesting updated read.

I was wondering what criteria you would put on selling the banks now that borecasts are all shot to pieces, but obv banks are out of favour, i.e. treating them as a contra play instead of a value play?

Regards

mrwhits.

fazm 03 Jul 2009 , 5:35pm

Hi tmfPyad

A couple of clarification points please.

1) in your example you say check pe vs the sector. But generally you are buying low pe/high yield vs the market rather then the top down sector player. What then? In my view one should look at both the market and the sector. I mean what would one do if the share price rose 50% but still had a discount to the sector but now the whole sector was a premium to the market. In my view the value has gone and the whole sector is now over priced this means sell.

2) You mention that this is simplified version by only considering p/e when as we know it is far better to use a number of ratios. Where do you draw the line if you bought for net cash, low p/e and high yield. E.g. At yr end Cash is now Debt. Other ratios unmoved. Sell then? or what if there is a handsome (as you put it :-) ) rise in the share price and p/e is now at market but yield is still significantly high. Sell then? In my view it comes to risk. As such if the net cash is gone bad news for downside protection but if the yield has gone then no more money while you wait.

thoughts?

cheers
Faz

pyad 03 Jul 2009 , 8:56pm

Thanks for the comments.

To mrwhits
Banks are likely to do very well over time from their present bombed out positions, the risk being that they face further problems resulting in complete nationalisation so that shareholders lose everything. On balance though, I'd guess the worst is more likely behind us than ahead.

But I don't see them as traditional value plays as there is little downside protection against the kind of gigantic financial difficulties that we have seen can hit them. As you say, more of a contrarian play, a punt on survival, because you can't trust the usual fundies here.

To fazm
1 I was using the sector comparison for illustration but as you say it could equally be the market or indeed both. It depends on the type of share but I didn't have space in the article to go into every possible consideration.

Some sectors are nearly always at a discount to the market on some measures. For example utilities will mostly trade on a higher yield to the market. But that doesn't mean that these are thereby value shares on that ground alone. Similarly property shares normally trade on a much lower P/B than the market and mostly under 1 too. In these cases you have to look at sector comparison to establish value.

2 My version of value is not mechanical so I don't have a fixed line to draw on any numbers. I make up my mind as I go along about how much value is remaining on which measures. Whilst all the ratios matter, people put different weightings on them. For some P/B is king, others would consider yield.

A couple of days ago I was discussing with someone when to sell a recent tip of mine here which I own. My buying was based on P/E, yield and net cash. It doesn't have any worthwhile asset cover. In his view the sell decision will be based on the yield falling below a certain level. For me that will come into it but also a gut feel, a smell and that is something I can't really get across to others easily. So for many, a mechanical sell point on whatever ratio(s) you see as the most important may be the easiest way to decide. But one can't generalise, it will depend on the specific share and on what particular value numbers attracted you to it.

Carcosa 04 Jul 2009 , 4:02pm

Thought it worthwhile to mention that future commentaries are likely to be posted on the value board at http://boards.fool.co.uk/Messages.asp?bid=50094&mid=11603753

goodlifer 15 Jan 2011 , 9:16pm

When sell value shares?
What's so wrong about what I do, or try to?
To simplify things slightly, I reckon most good shares are worth roughly fifteen times their estimated earnings, and not a penny more.
So I try not to sell unless they get to twenty times, or maybe a bit more.
But only if I know where to reinvest the money.
For instance, my Man Group have climbed to about nineteen times, so if they go much further I'll sell and reinvest in something cheaper, eg Aviva.
At the other end of the spectrum, my HMV only command about three times earnings.
A devil-may-care riverboat gambler might get in further while they're still cheap, but not me.
I'd sell if I were sure they're for the dead cart; till then it seems more sensible to hang on - if they stay in business they can hardlyget much worse.
Of course I could be wildly wrong, but isn't that why we diversify?

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