I'm Not Buying Banks

Published in Company Comment on 3 July 2008

The banking sector is down by nearly half in the past year, but is this a good buying opportunity?

The banking sector is down by nearly half in the past year, but is this a good buying opportunity? A lot of money will be made by anyone who can correctly time an entry into the banks, but for the moment I'm staying clear of it.

My main concern is the effect that property prices could have on banks' loan books. On the way up, increasing property prices facilitated more lending, which drove property prices even higher, and so on. A similar dynamic can operate on the way down, with falling prices forcing distress sales of property to meet financial commitments, which in turn drives property lower.

As much lending is supported by property prices, this is not just a problem for borrowers but also for their banks. Whether banks get tough with borrowers and precipitate further falls in property prices, or waive some of their conditions, they will be in a difficult position.

Taylor Wimpey's (LSE: TW) failed attempt to raise funding shows just how vulnerable the house-building sector is. Writing £550m off the value of its portfolio may only be the start, and it will be interesting to see how this story plays out. Will there be a fire-sale of property to prevent breaching its banking covenants? House prices have a long way to fall before reaching their historical valuation norms, and the fall may not stop there. Banks would feel that pain as much as anyone.

And banks are having their own struggle to raise capital at the moment. The rights issue by RBS (LSE: RBS) went smoothly, and that was a huge amount of money -- £12bn, bigger than the total value of HBOS (LSE: HBOS). But Bradford & Bingley (LSE: BB) found it more difficult, and one has to ask how much more fund-raising will be required before the sector is finally back on an even keel.

I don't know the answer to that question, and I don't believe that anyone really does. The sudden change in Bradford & Bingley's position, from claiming all was well to needing a massive cash injection in the space of a few weeks, shows that even the insiders don't know.

My guess, and at the moment it can only be a guess, given the inscrutable nature of their business, is that banks are in for an even rougher time. And even if I thought the opposite, that could only be a guess too, and and I'd need something more substantial than that to justify investing.

Good bankers, like good tea, can only be appreciated when they are in hot water.” -- Jaffar Hussein, Governor of the Malaysian Central Bank.

 

More: HBOS Hopes For A Recovery

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Comments

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jerryrc 03 Jul 2008 , 4:36pm

"A lot of money will be made by anyone who can correctly time an entry into the banks, but for the moment I'm staying clear of it"

Does this not depend on your investing time horizon? Given today's share prices, in hindsight you can make the rationale that bank shares were not a good purchase any time within the last 5 years, yet people are only now telling us to steer clear of them and I don't remember commentators telling us to sell before last summer! Surely, this is a better time to purchase bank shares than any time in last 5 years; its against most people's instincts I suppose.

They are generally the first shares to recover in an upturn and if you have a 5-10 year time Horizon does it matter if you don't time your purchase perfectly?

cnebbia 03 Jul 2008 , 5:32pm

Timing is not everything. The key factor is how much value is inside the share of each bank. There is no guarantee, today, that RBS or LLOY will reach again the quotations they had one year ago.

Beagle2Mars 04 Jul 2008 , 12:01am

I've done the reverse and bought banking shares and put them into an ISA. Their dividends are generous and re-invested means growth is faster.

I think it is the CEO of Persimmon who has just called the bottom of the property market by buying fire-sale land from a rival. Apparently he has done this before in a career spanning 40 years.

Also B&B and Northern Rock have exposed management problems rather than economic ones.

I agree with jerryrc and the author in that they might take 2-3 years rather than 1-2 years to recover but I am looking long-term anyway.

MidnightGardener 04 Jul 2008 , 7:21am

"There are no banks in Maynard Paton's Champion Shares portfolio either"

Time to buy banks then!

Seriously, RBS,LLOY or maybe BARC shares are likely to be a much better investment in the next couple of months with a 2-3 year horizon than a deposit account.

ruisliprabbitt 04 Jul 2008 , 1:24pm

"Be fearful when others are greedy, be greedy when others are fearful".

Ruisliprabbitt 4th July 2008

[Also said by some other small time investor in the US somehere, Omaha wasn't it?]

dave02heasman 04 Jul 2008 , 4:04pm

"I think it is the CEO of Persimmon "

I think it's Tony Pidgely of Berkeley.

psychicduncan 04 Jul 2008 , 11:31pm

jerryrc, I must admit I was thinking along similar lines to you. Banking is all of a sudden a bad move because of the "credit crunch", and if you check out Analyst Opinion on FT you can see that there's a slight trend *NOW* towards Hold and not Buy -however anyone suggesting a buy six months ago would have lost you money - so why trust their judgement now?!
I understand fully that there are huge problems in the banking sector, but surely
I thought it Foolish for an investment in shares to be a long term deal - so why not invest in bank(s) now?
The bigger banks with high yield are surely a good bet? I have done this myself today to a certain extent and I am cetainly more positive than negative about my move.
By the way, I thought the post from cnebbia was a good point but I'm trying to overcome my (too) cautious approach as I tend to miss the boat as I did in 2003 along with many people when bargains were available and we steered clear!!

PsychicDuncanWheelbarrow

brynmaxwell 05 Jul 2008 , 12:07pm

I did invest heavily in 2003 buying where yield was better than deposit a/c’s. Sold most early last year and made a huge profit, but buying required courage. Probably same situation applies now except banks are bound to cut dividend 40% + IMO.

Finao91 06 Jul 2008 , 9:38am

I've invested in a number of banks as the share prices have fallen. By historical standards the banks are cheap, of course the credit crunch has knocked them for six due to their own negligence. Having said this I rate the banks I like the most in the following order: -

Standard Chartered
Banco Do Brasil
Wells Fargo
HSBC
Barclays
Bradford & Bingley
HBOS
RBS

Beagle2Mars 07 Jul 2008 , 12:29am

Thanks for that dave02heasman. You probably also concur that Barclays has promised not to cut their dividend? :)

Maybe a Foolish writer or Finao91 could discuss banks and their dividends without wanting us to join 'Income Investor'.

Beagle2Mars 16 Jul 2008 , 5:01pm

Sounds a bit peevish now I read it again. Sorry about that. Promises about dividend cuts depend on too many variables. I read somewhere that we should consider buying those banks that had already had their shareholder calls. That might be RBS and they are still falling ... I think ;) Maybe I'll go in anyway.

jerryrc 03 Jul 2008 , 4:36pm

"A lot of money will be made by anyone who can correctly time an entry into the banks, but for the moment I'm staying clear of it"

Does this not depend on your investing time horizon? Given today's share prices, in hindsight you can make the rationale that bank shares were not a good purchase any time within the last 5 years, yet people are only now telling us to steer clear of them and I don't remember commentators telling us to sell before last summer! Surely, this is a better time to purchase bank shares than any time in last 5 years; its against most people's instincts I suppose.

They are generally the first shares to recover in an upturn and if you have a 5-10 year time Horizon does it matter if you don't time your purchase perfectly?

cnebbia 03 Jul 2008 , 5:32pm

Timing is not everything. The key factor is how much value is inside the share of each bank. There is no guarantee, today, that RBS or LLOY will reach again the quotations they had one year ago.

Beagle2Mars 04 Jul 2008 , 12:01am

I've done the reverse and bought banking shares and put them into an ISA. Their dividends are generous and re-invested means growth is faster.

I think it is the CEO of Persimmon who has just called the bottom of the property market by buying fire-sale land from a rival. Apparently he has done this before in a career spanning 40 years.

Also B&B and Northern Rock have exposed management problems rather than economic ones.

I agree with jerryrc and the author in that they might take 2-3 years rather than 1-2 years to recover but I am looking long-term anyway.

MidnightGardener 04 Jul 2008 , 7:21am

"There are no banks in Maynard Paton's Champion Shares portfolio either"

Time to buy banks then!

Seriously, RBS,LLOY or maybe BARC shares are likely to be a much better investment in the next couple of months with a 2-3 year horizon than a deposit account.

ruisliprabbitt 04 Jul 2008 , 1:24pm

"Be fearful when others are greedy, be greedy when others are fearful".

Ruisliprabbitt 4th July 2008

[Also said by some other small time investor in the US somehere, Omaha wasn't it?]

dave02heasman 04 Jul 2008 , 4:04pm

"I think it is the CEO of Persimmon "

I think it's Tony Pidgely of Berkeley.

psychicduncan 04 Jul 2008 , 11:31pm

jerryrc, I must admit I was thinking along similar lines to you. Banking is all of a sudden a bad move because of the "credit crunch", and if you check out Analyst Opinion on FT you can see that there's a slight trend *NOW* towards Hold and not Buy -however anyone suggesting a buy six months ago would have lost you money - so why trust their judgement now?!
I understand fully that there are huge problems in the banking sector, but surely
I thought it Foolish for an investment in shares to be a long term deal - so why not invest in bank(s) now?
The bigger banks with high yield are surely a good bet? I have done this myself today to a certain extent and I am cetainly more positive than negative about my move.
By the way, I thought the post from cnebbia was a good point but I'm trying to overcome my (too) cautious approach as I tend to miss the boat as I did in 2003 along with many people when bargains were available and we steered clear!!

PsychicDuncanWheelbarrow

brynmaxwell 05 Jul 2008 , 12:07pm

I did invest heavily in 2003 buying where yield was better than deposit a/c’s. Sold most early last year and made a huge profit, but buying required courage. Probably same situation applies now except banks are bound to cut dividend 40% + IMO.

Finao91 06 Jul 2008 , 9:38am

I've invested in a number of banks as the share prices have fallen. By historical standards the banks are cheap, of course the credit crunch has knocked them for six due to their own negligence. Having said this I rate the banks I like the most in the following order: -

Standard Chartered
Banco Do Brasil
Wells Fargo
HSBC
Barclays
Bradford & Bingley
HBOS
RBS

Beagle2Mars 07 Jul 2008 , 12:29am

Thanks for that dave02heasman. You probably also concur that Barclays has promised not to cut their dividend? :)

Maybe a Foolish writer or Finao91 could discuss banks and their dividends without wanting us to join 'Income Investor'.

Beagle2Mars 16 Jul 2008 , 5:01pm

Sounds a bit peevish now I read it again. Sorry about that. Promises about dividend cuts depend on too many variables. I read somewhere that we should consider buying those banks that had already had their shareholder calls. That might be RBS and they are still falling ... I think ;) Maybe I'll go in anyway.

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