Bidding The Banks Farewell

Published in Investing on 9 January 2012

Why one Fool finally walked away from his abusive relationship with the banks.

On 30 December, I sold my full stake in Barclays (LSE: BARC) and Lloyds Banking Group (LSE: LLOY). It wasn't quite as painful as I expected, given the size of the losses I was crystallising, although it still hurt.

Why I had to walk away

It was liberating, clearing out of UK banks. It felt a bit like leaving an abusive relationship. Friends said I should have walked away years ago, but I kept going back for more, convincing myself that the bad days were behind us, things would be different this time and it would all work out in the end. Now it's time to move on.

Understandable misunderstanding

My experience of trying to catch the two lethal falling knives of Barclays and Lloyds was a near-perfect illustration of another wise old investment rule: never invest in something you don't understand.

I don't feel bad about failing to understand the banks. Nobody else does, either. Senior management didn't understand what their derivatives traders are getting up to. Credit ratings agencies failed to spot the risks until too late. Even the taxman doesn't appear to understand the complex legal structures Barclays uses to avoid tax.

The politicians don't understand banks either, and don't want to either. They could order the banks to come clean about the toxic secrets on their balance sheets, but they don't.

I suspect the answer scares them too much.

Rough trade

If you're a trader, rather than a Foolishly long-term investor, you may still be fatally attracted to the banks. Anything that can rise 7% one day and fall 5% the next -- repeatedly -- is a trader's dream.

Better still, these sharp movements follow a fixed pattern. Banking stocks soar every time the EU had another one of its 'save the euro' summits, and somehow convinces the world it has done just that. The next day they collapse, as the world snaps out of its self-induced stupor.

Yer daft apeth!

There is a danger in quitting the banks. First, you are exiting at a lousy time. The chances are you will be taking out a lot less than you put in.

If a solution to the eurozone crisis mysteriously emerges (miracles do happen), this sector could soar. At time of writing, Lloyds trades at 27p. It doesn't take a great stretch of the imagination to see it trading at 54p.

If that happens, I'll be writing an article saying why I was daft to sell the banks. And you can all laugh at me.

At least I will be diverting some of the money into low-cost FTSE 100 trackers. These will give me some exposure to any banking recovery, when it comes, but with much less risk.

Bye-bye banks

There are big dangers in hanging on to banks as well. Given the paucity of dividends, it could be some years before you start making any money from this sector.

I haven't sold my loss-making stake in Aviva (LSE: AV), for example, because it currently yields 8.5%. That gives me something meaty to chew on until I'm served a sweet slab of capital growth.

Banks also face a lot of hard work before they can be welcomed into polite society again. Simply deleveraging isn't enough -- the sector needs fundamental restructuring. Politicians are still gunning for them. The volatility is likely to continue.

Gone for good?

The most immediate threat is the single currency crisis. If that worsens and we get default and contagion, banking stocks could fall even lower than they have.

That's the final reason I'm feeling relatively relaxed about waving goodbye to the banks. Given current volatility, there's always a chance I can buy back into the banks at an even cheaper rate than I sold.

But for now, I'm happy to be out of this abusive relationship.

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Comments

The opinions expressed here are those of the individual writers and are not representative of The Motley Fool. If you spot any comments that are unsuitable hit the flag to alert our moderators.

goodlifer 09 Jan 2012 , 1:49pm

Funny, I've been buying a few Barclays over the last month or so; their numbers looked pretty good to me.
So I'm afraid I hope you've got it all wrong!

I also bought some Standard Chartered when the market was way down, but they're a horse of a rather different colour..

BigJC1 09 Jan 2012 , 3:40pm

Banks are a bit like energy companies, we hate them but we need them. I've been buying steadily over a few months across UK banks which I know is risky but to be honest if all the major UK banks go to the wall shares losses will probably be the least of my worries.

More likely is that over the next five years banks will bounce back (after all the UK desperately needs a strong banking sector). If you look back to the profits of Lloyds and HBOS pre 2008 and consider how much of the customer base, infrastructure and resources remain there has to be some hope of a substantial turnaround.

Jonesey12 09 Jan 2012 , 4:04pm

To be honest, banks could go anywhere. I wouldn't discourage people from investing in them now.
goodlifer and BigJC1 almost certainly won't regret their decisions. Provided they hang on for the long-term.
I had personal reasons to sell. Effectively, a 28% rebate on my losses. If they get cheaper over the coming months, I may return!

Harvey

Jonesey12 09 Jan 2012 , 4:10pm

I should point out that the 28% “rebate" was to do with some complicated overseas CGT maneouvres too tedious to mention in the piece. This was removed from the original piece.

Harvey

kelvin123 09 Jan 2012 , 6:59pm

I agree that crystallising losses for CGT purposes can be a good strategy. I was sitting on large LGEN and DNLM profits, that I couldn't sell more than a modest proportion of if I wanted to stay within the annual CGT exemption limit. At the time I didn't think that LGEN or DNLM would be able to sustain their high share prices, so selling out of both was desirable in my eyes. The solution was to sell my entire rump of RBS at the same time, which resulted in a loss that offset the LGEN and DNLM profits enough to stay within the CGT exemption limit.

LiverpoolDelta 09 Jan 2012 , 9:53pm

I woudent feel confident telling a new investor to lay good money down on the roller coaster that is 'Bank Investing' but too sell shares already held is very short sighted.

vinchainsaw 09 Jan 2012 , 10:01pm

Dont see anything wrong with dipping a toe in and buying some HSBC or Barclays.

Just dont know if I see a way back for RBS or Lloyds. Ever.
And its not just the financial hole they're in. Its the tightening legislation on banks profitable divisions and the inevitable brain drain that occurs in such companies.

UncleEbenezer 10 Jan 2012 , 1:34am

Brain drain? Aha, a reason to invest (at last).

On a more serious note, the decline of the zombies should leave a nice opportunity for newer entrants. Especially if the government reduces support. So that'll be Buy TSCO!

adcmelb 10 Jan 2012 , 6:56am

I think you will have made a mistake in selling your bank shares in a few years time(probably less than 5 yrs) when the banks have turned a corner and the negative news has dwindled the share price will rise

vinchainsaw 10 Jan 2012 , 1:39pm

Touche UncleEbenezer! Lol.

But, in all seriousness, and not referring to zombies and the trading folk, there is a real lack of incentive for any reliable staff to join, or for good staff to remain.
Just because a person is bright doesnt make them a spiv.

A young employee that perhaps had a very bright future a couple of years ago will feel quite motivated to jump ship to a Barclays or an HSBC if the opportunity arose.
Or even get out of banking altogether.

equitybore 10 Jan 2012 , 3:48pm

My standard three questions:

Do they know what they are doing?
Have they competitive advantage?
Is there a nice divi?

Barclays does know what it is doing, but this is sadly paying the top executives more than the combined shareholders. The two that seem to hit the buttons are HSBC and Standard but the last has a small dividend.

seargentmitsol 10 Jan 2012 , 6:10pm

As to whether it was time to sell your shares I think your very statement of not understanding the company is reason enough, I for one have been burn't over the preceding months and at present am out of the market until stability returns and a clear direction is evident. There are very few which could put hand on heart and say they understand the banks and I for one really don't know what I'm buying that's even looking at the fundamentals, to many tricks of the trade to make things look rosier than they are. We are a long way from coming out of this and I believe there will be better buying opportunities in the future, for those of you brave folk I wish you luck but suggest a bit of juggling practice to catch those falling knives before they drop below the point of no return. It all boils down to the recovery in Europe which doesn't look like its going anywhere in the short term!

MHMCdoc 11 Jan 2012 , 1:09pm

last time i looked HSBA was at 500p with a dividend of 4%.
i remember a year ago it was 700p.
it has good fundamentals and strong exposure to Asia.
It's a well run bank. It is a value play.
I continue to top up when i can afford to.

sonrisa1 11 Jan 2012 , 1:53pm

We do not really need banks except for dodgy investments, Building societies are much safer but only pay very low interest which is mostly because of the incompetence of the BOE, the economy will not recover while savers get such a small return on investments.

sonrisa1 11 Jan 2012 , 1:56pm

There seems no point in selling shares unless reinvesting as cash gives such a low return, buy well paying dividend shares, there are a few around & lock into a dividend reinvestment plan if you do not need the cash in the short term.

Afrosia 11 Jan 2012 , 2:05pm

I have bought banks (LLOY and HSBA) because they are out of favour, but it's quite a bad sector fundamentally: stupidly cyclical, single digit returns on equity are common from 20-30x leverage, prone to disasters and bailouts.

Meanwhile a company like Dunelm Mills produces unleveraged ROE of nearly 50% from zero leverage.

I own banks, but I frequently question why!

BLH1936 11 Jan 2012 , 5:57pm

The contributions seem to be confusing two questions! If you own bank shares should you sell and if you don't own, should you buy? The second one is easy - there are plenty of safer and more lucrative investments available out there so why risk buying into a bank. The first question is the difficult one!

monkjack 12 Jan 2012 , 1:27pm

I've been amassing more and more barclays, MS, and JPM. Massively undervalued and suffering because of the poorer banks.

Time will tell if this author sold at the worst possible time or if he got out before another big push down.

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