Time To Take A Punt On A Bank

Published in Investing on 20 January 2009

The great UK banking panic of January 2009 has plumbed new depths. But for those willing to take a punt, the cheap prices on offer just might be worth the risk.

What now for the beleaguered UK banks?

Based on yesterday's share price movements of Royal Bank of Scotland (LSE: RBS), down a mind boggling 67% on the day to just 11.6p, and the brand spanking new Lloyds Banking Group (LSE: LLOY), down a whopping 34% to 65p, the market is thinking it is only a matter of time before they too are nationalised.

The Financial Times' influential Lex column said bank investors should "brace for nationalisation". According to bbc.co.uk, Liberal Democrat treasury spokesman Vince Cable said "The government must bite the bullet on public ownership and control the banks…"

One thing is certain. It was certain prior to the latest banking bailout, and it is still certain today -- this is going to be a long and painful recession. For all of us, that means battening down the hatches, doing as much as we can to hang onto our jobs, and to just get through the next 12 to 24 months.

This May Take Some Time, Mr Brown

In his article What Today's Bailout Means For You And Me, my colleague Stuart Watson made several excellent points…

• "…my view is that this excessive debt is like an addiction. We need to wean ourselves off it slowly to mitigate the damage to the economy."

• "…it will some time before we know whether this package is working."

• "It would be nice to think that this second bailout can draw a line under this whole situation. But in reality, it’s just a small piece of the puzzle compared to what taxpayers are already on the hook for."

The bottom line is that no-one, from you, me, the bloke at the pub, the lady at the bingo, Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling, Mervyn King, Ben Bernanke, Andy Murray or even Barack Obama, although the latter can apparently walk on water, knows what will happen to the global economy over the next few years.

Recession, Depression, Inflation, Gold…

Some doomsters say we are headed for a depression, however you define a depression. (Hint: Recession is when your next door neighbour loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours). It won't be a 1930s type depression, with 25% unemployment, but it will be worse than your normal recession. I'm depressed even thinking about it.

Some people think we're headed for a bout of rampant inflation, perhaps as early as the latter part of this year. Frankly, I'd be happy with inflation as it feels like it will be a whole lot better than this deflation we've got now. Of course, if and when it happened, I'm sure I'll be pining for the deflationary days again. But I don't think we'll have to worry about inflation in 2009.

Some people reckon the gold price is going to be the ultimate beneficiary of this global financial crisis. Gold is a hedge against a falling US dollar and a hedge against inflation. The gold bugs say the dollar will fall under the weight of the massive US government deficit. If inflation soars, too, gold will soon shoot back above $1,000 an ounce on its way to $2,000 an ounce. I'll leave that debate to the gold bugs. They just love the stuff, as does my wife.

A Whiff Of 1974

And what about share prices, in particular banking share prices? Surely Royal Bank of Scotland at 11.6p is an absolute steal, isn't it? Or what about Barclays (LSE: BARC) at 88p? Less than a week ago Barclays traded at 180p.

If the great UK banking panic of January 2009 subsided as quickly as it began, and Barclays shares returned to 180p, that would be a double from today. Is it possible? Anything is possible in this economy and this stock market.

Prolific discussion board poster emptyend said

"I think that parts of the market have a whiff of 1974 about them…the selling of the banks is now verging on the irrational."

"I think the market might be setting itself up for a major bear market rally (as per the institutional move in 1974)..... the fundamentals for the banks (and for others) are nowhere near as bad going forward as the market prices suggest......and once the write-downs are all done then the earnings will turn around incredibly sharply."

Lest you might be thinking there is quick money to be made by trading banking shares, popular discussion-board poster KingMcKong and his Diary of a swing trader suggest otherwise…

"19 January 09 (after coffee) - decide RBS ridiculously cheap and double up at 24p. Go to work (away from computer access).

19 January 09 - return from work. Note RBS now available at 11.5p"

Oops.

Taking A Punt On Banks

The bottom line is we're all just guessing. It's hard enough to guess what will happen to the economy let alone guess which way, and by how much, shares in UK banks will move, today, tomorrow or any day. If you've got the stomach for a 50% loss in the space of one trading day, as happened to KingMcKong, and you believe emptyend might be right, you might want to take a punt on RBS, Lloyds or Barclays.

There are two other options. One is to sell up, get out of the stock market, stick your money in a savings account, earning 1.5% interest, and wait out the storm. It's not very exciting, but safe.

The other option is to continue investing in the stock market through a cheap tracker, taking a long-term perspective, with money you don't need to access for at least 5 years. If you want to take a punt on a bank or three, make sure you have a sufficiently diversified portfolio, so that if one or more banks do get nationalised, and your shareholding is completely wiped out, the loss doesn't wipe out a large portion of your wealth.

Outside the banks, I'm looking at a mix of high yielding blue chips mixed with cash-rich smaller companies. The latter are particular favourites of our resident share tipster Maynard Paton over at Champion Shares -- check out his very latest recommendations for 30 days absolutely free.

Interesting times for a banker…

More: Greedy Bankers Are Bailed Out Yet Again | What Today's Bailout Means For You And Me

> Of the companies mentioned in this article, Bruce Jackson has what has now become a very very small beneficial holding in Lloyds Banking Group and Barclays. Double oops.

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Comments

The opinions expressed here are those of the individual writers and are not representative of The Motley Fool. If you spot any comments that are unsuitable hit the flag to alert our moderators.

LastChip 20 Jan 2009 , 10:57am

"Taking a punt" just about sums it up. I think I'd rather bet on a horse and I never do that!

I'll give a little on Barclays though, that may just be credible, as they are the only major bank thus far not to take government money. If they are seriously confident that their middle East money is sufficient to see them through, it could mean they are in a lot better shape than the others.

But remember Fools, never catch a falling knife; and definitely not now!

rowlystravel 20 Jan 2009 , 11:33am

it is completely irrational, the writedowns are all creative accounting to make future years look better, i know one firm where DB wrote off 1bn, but the book has lower than industry average arrears, they just want rid... end of...makes profits look better the following year, when they shouldnt have suffered the loss anyway

DavidT67 20 Jan 2009 , 11:36am

Any share which has fallen 90% can still fall a further 90%...

I would rather punt on the banks being nationalised, with 1p compensation for shareholders, than invest in them directly or indirectly.

LastChip 20 Jan 2009 , 11:38am

In the interests of remaining honest to you and everyone else, your article inspired me to take a closer look at Barclays and even as cynical as I am, I bought a few at 83.1p so we can all see whether it was inspired or a folly!

I'm not holding my breath, but on a two-three year view, it could be a satisfactory deal. Who knows, I may even wish I'd bought more.

But remember Fools, never catch a falling knife; and definitely not now! Why did I do that? Damn foooool!!!!!!!

mutantpoodle 20 Jan 2009 , 12:03pm

its interesting
Barclays may very well be the one bank to survive, simply because the middle eastern money IS available and if it is forthcoming then it will be a VERY acceptable alternative for most people to having to use a state run bank! NOT an attractive prospect with big brothes eyes everywhere!
as they certainly will be after this debacle

castath 20 Jan 2009 , 7:09pm

I am using Bruce as a guide as when to buy shares, only when he comes on this site and tells us not to buy any shares ever again will be the time to start buying shares.

It nearly happened last year, in one article it was as though he was going to slit his wrists only for a more optimistic article to appear a few days later.

I am glad you stayed with us Bruce but the Government has calculated inflation at 3.1% for December, as mentioned in another of your articles please stop saying we have deflation.

foolishecosse 20 Jan 2009 , 7:16pm

If a bank is nationalised, will the outstanding shares in it be compulsorily purchased? Or will they be tradeable when the bank is renationalised in a few years time?

LastChip 20 Jan 2009 , 7:50pm

Well, good call Bruce, I'm down 13% today on Barclays, but it's only a bit of fun with a small amount of spare cash.

All joking apart, I do appreciate, it's likely to take longer than a day to loose it all!

Now in all seriousness, to anyone that is not prepared to loose all their cash invested in the stock market; stay away. This most definitely is not the time for widows and orphans!

ididdidi 20 Jan 2009 , 11:11pm

I would also like to know the answer to foolish ecosse question. Quote " If a bank is nationalised, will the outstanding shares in it be compulsorily purchased? Or will they be tradeable when the bank is renationalised in a few years time?" end Quote

I am neither an orphan or widdow and seriously considering a punt got to be better than the rubbish I was sold by my financial adviser but thats another story.

Anyone know TIA


seagull104 21 Jan 2009 , 10:44am

Must say I envy LastChip. I suggested some weeks ago that Barclays were a snip at £1.70! Lastchip responded by stating they had lower to fall. A buddy of mine bought a few but I didn't have ready cash so I missed. Fortunately. Today they really MUST be a snip at 73p!? Again, my dealing service won't be accessible till Friday. Will this be a good thing?? I shall certainly be in there if they're under £1.00.

dfrankb 21 Jan 2009 , 11:03am

I cannot believe that all the banks will be nationalised - HMG simply couldn't afford to underwrite the whole banking system. That said, one or two may fall wholly under public ownership.

There may be a case for buying a mini-portfolio containing small holdings in all the banks. If only two or three survive, a punter would almost certainly make money.

David Barker

jba7985 21 Jan 2009 , 11:46am

Taking a punt could be considered, but the fear is, if Government nationalises the banks, they will buy out the shares at current rates that 25-50p per share.

seagull104 21 Jan 2009 , 12:15pm

Surely if Barclays have sufficient liquidity the government cannot force them to sell. And as has already been pointed out, who would trust their financial affairs to the government if they had any choice at all?? And what about HSBC? this is a multinational, the collapse of which would only happen if the world financial systems collapse, taking us back to the dark ages and cave dwelling! Reallity and survival will triumph in the end. Its just a question of time. Isn't it??

McLeodC 21 Jan 2009 , 1:02pm

Only about a year ago The Fool was saying how Lloyds TSB looked like a bargain, based on P/E ratio, and speculating about why such a great company was undervalued! Did somebody know something that we didn't?
Now with added HBOS, the group has a massively increased market share, yet the shares are a fraction of their former price. If it retains any underlying value it may emerge from the current mess eventually, but I don't expect share prices to return to levels of even a few months ago for a very long time.
The banking sector, once thought to be the domain of our safest blue-chips, is definitely not a place for widows & orphans right now.

DavidT67 21 Jan 2009 , 2:18pm

Come Easter you can look forward to the nationalised Royal Bank of Kirkcaldy Scotland group, incorporating the remnants of Lloyds/HBOS, Northern Rock/Bradford Bingley, et al.

Up against the United Arab bank of Barclays and the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank of China.

If nothing else it would save the taxpayer from having a dozen £1m chairmen, just one Lord Mandy...

HenryScottTuke 21 Jan 2009 , 2:19pm

Buying individual stocks is risky, i've had individual stocks lose 99.9%. If you buy a basket (10) of individual stocks you spread the risk, but if one loses 100%, that means every other one has to make 11% before you are back to square one. Big companies can and do fail. Don't lose money is the answer, I know easier said than done, but as I see it the only sensible option at present is a tracker. Ok the FTSE may drop further, but it will rebound. Buying a company that goes into administration or is nationalised leaves you with nothing, or very little.

TooFool4School 21 Jan 2009 , 2:30pm

I'M CONFUSED!

oldbustard 21 Jan 2009 , 4:19pm

As regards possible nationalisation, HMG doesn't have to buy - they either:
a. drive the share price into the ground, assuming it isn't heading that way without HMG's help or
b. simply confiscate the company and make vague noises about compensation in the future, which of course never comes. Railtrack & Northern Rock are examples of this.

Current shareholdings will be valueless if the companies are ever re-privatised.

seagull104 22 Jan 2009 , 5:22pm

I'm intrigued by oldbustard's comment. In a civilised democracy, even a socialist one, is it true that a government can just move in on any company it fancies? I sincerely hope not! The examples he quotes were in dire trouble. Barclays would vehemently deny this, see their recent Director's statement. But why today have they finished below 60p??? What am I missing? Or should I pawn the family silver and buy them up?

BT at £1.10? again I accept that they have just announced a write off of £340m for Global Services but the rest of the business looks pretty sound and if they do pay the final dividend as forecast the shares almost pay for themselves! Or do the pundits predict that they should have held on to the 5.4p (4.9%) interim they are about to pay out?

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