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Watch Out For This Shares Scam

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Published in Investing on 26 February 2008

Some private investors have lost as much as £40,000 from the 'boiler room' scam.

This article has already been sent to Fools as part of our 'The Good, The Bad and The Ugly' email campaign.

I think the ‘boiler room' is the ugliest financial scam of them all.

Telesales staff outside the UK call up unsuspecting private investors and pressure them to buy dodgy shares at inflated prices. Some people believe the crooks' sales patter and frequently they end up losing all the money they've invested.

Don't assume that it won't happen to you. Often the victims are pretty sophisticated folk who have been playing the markets for ten years or more.

Indeed, the Financial Services Authority (FSA) has highlighted one case where a management consultant in his 50s lost £40,000 to a boiler room scam, and he had been investing in the stock market for 12 years...

How does it work?

Boiler rooms are always based outside the UK and are not regulated by the FSA.

The boiler rooms use various techniques to get hold of names to call. They can follow up initial market research calls or call up investors on shareholder registers of small companies. Dealers can then offer free research on a punter's favourite share, and a relationship can be built from there. Or you might be offered free research via junk mail. If you send a reply card back with a tick in a particular box, the dealing room can then claim it's making a legitimate phone call.

Often the boiler room salespeople push shares that ‘are about to IPO' (list on the stock market) and ‘big profits' can be expected. More often than not, the company never lists and the investors lose all their cash.

Sometimes the shares are listed, often on fairly obscure markets such as the ‘pink sheets' in the US. On occasion, the shares are listed on better known exchanges, but either way there's a good chance that the share price will start to fall shortly after you've paid your cash. What's more, the boiler room may have taken an outrageously high dealing commission.

Why does it work?

The boiler rooms don't give up easily. They will constantly call a target, trying to build a relationship and get their confidence.

According to FSA research, six out of ten targets were pursued for at least a month regardless of whether they purchased shares. Nearly a quarter of targets said they were receiving calls from the same boiler room for more than a year.

What can you do?

If you're cold-called by somebody trying to sell you a share, be very suspicious indeed. If it's such a sure thing, why is he ringing up complete strangers and telling them about it? The simplest approach is to hang up as quickly as possible.

If your curiosity won't let you do that, you can check the FSA's list of unauthorised overseas firms that are targeting UK investors. But if a firm isn't on the list, don't assume it's a kosher operation. Boiler rooms frequently change names to get around this.

You can find out much more about boiler rooms in this excellent FAQ compiled by star poster JakNife on our discussion boards. Also read these useful tips by my Foolish friend David Kuo.

> Anatomy Of A Boiler Room Scam | How To Spot A Scam | The Motley Fool Sharedealing Service

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Comments

The opinions expressed here are those of the individual writers and are not representative of The Motley Fool. If you spot any comments that are unsuitable hit the flag to alert our moderators.

Terrapin1 26 Feb 2008, 11:51am

I never ever trade on tips- and occasionally an ex-broker would give me some share oe other-but I always replied"not interested" if it's so good bet the farm,and buy me a beer! Trading is about making considered decisions and taking responsibility-there's no easy way that will make consistent profits, and 'tips' are a way of ducking responsibility, as it's too simple to blame someone else.

allritejack 27 Feb 2008, 7:05am

Been a few years now but I am still sitting with the shares and a £150,000 loss on the Goldfield Consultants scam. This was US stock and I progessed from owning 711 franchise stores in Puerto Rico to a 3,000 to 1 reduction in Hunt Gold Inc. How did that happen? Only Johnny Ray Arnold the CEO of both knows but he is not contactable.

youdaler 27 Feb 2008, 1:50pm

Summary: Boiler rooms recruit young ... My cousin, a strapping sporty type 21-year old, has just been offered a job in Madrid. He is following his two best mates, both of similiar ages, who have moved to Spain in the past-six months. He was offered the job based entirely on a phone interview "because he sounded good on the phone". The job spec is simple: Offering advice on stocks to UK investors. None of these lads have any experience of stock markets, finance, business or anything that would remotely qualify them for this job. Not to hold back the young and dynamic, as they may being recruited as trainees. However, I would suspect they are being recruited because they are naive to the workings of a boiler room. Lets see once my cousin starts next week!

diydave 05 Mar 2008, 10:57pm

Jaknife, if you come by this, who do I send bank details of boiler room scams to? Waste of time notifying the FSA.
Matheson Lloyd, despite numerous reportings (and having their "office" not far from the FSA!)are STILL promoting US Petroleum Holdings today. 5/3/2008.
I thought I might go along with them to get a contract note and bank details but I need to know who might actually DO SOMETHING about shutting down at least their UK contact address/phone number.

tallpaul22 11 Apr 2008, 4:16pm

I've been through this but technically have not been scammed because I didn't lose any money. Goldman And Ross www.goldmanandross.com tried the same thing on me; called me up, showed me their website and UK phone numbers, and then suggested I buy some stock by transferring money to a Dubai bank account. (After failing to deliver any contracts by post and then emailing them). The police patiently listened to my story but said nothing would happen because no crime has taken place. These guys were also calling from Spain, though I dare not say how I knew in case they see this and rectify their mistake. They've already added Canary Wharf as an address on their site because I mentioned a lack of UK address.

PinkDalek1 15 May 2008, 7:28pm

Anyone just happening to find this thread would benefit from reading the FAQ on the dedicated TMF board below:

A fool And His Money...
http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=10212932

PD

ivydale 09 Jun 2008, 4:05pm

Have you specifically lost money by investing with Seisma Oil Research or are you assuming this is a scam.
I am tempted to invest in a project (SEC registered) and mindful of your comment and FSA reference I have found nothing to suggest this is a scam.

PinkDalek1 09 Jun 2008, 10:31pm

"Have you specifically lost money by investing with Seisma Oil Research or are you assuming this is a scam."

Seisma Oil Research LLC appear on the FSA's list of Unauthorised overseas firms operating in the UK:

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Law/Alerts/overs...

"I am tempted to invest in a project (SEC registered) and mindful of your comment and FSA reference I have found nothing to suggest this is a scam"

Please explain.

Is your question related to a potential investment in Seisma Oil Research or in something else.

Were you called out of the blue to be told about a sure fire tip?

Perhaps you should read this:

'A fool And His Money ... Boiler Room FAQ'
http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=10212932

PD

pacman40 11 Jun 2008, 3:06pm

ive previously had calls from a richard hall at goldman and ross asking me about investments. yesterday he phoned me back saying that he has a company which is moving fast and if he decides to recommend it am i in a position to act. when i checked his firm it brought me to this site.
although goldman and ross are not on the fsa list , does the fact that they are mentioned on here mean i should ignore him. to be honest i would never invest money with someone using the phone, only in person. if it is dodgy is it worth me playing along to get info too help shut them down, or is it a case of what they do not really being illegal but just garbage advice so they just get commission and run. he did say they only take commission on profit percentage though.

any advice would be great.

pacman40 11 Jun 2008, 3:10pm

ps

ive had many calls from another american chap over the last 3-4 years, same sorta deal. usually oil or alternative fuels. never been mugged but he still keeps trying. could i be on the boiler room radar ).
figure i have time , so i'll just waste their time and money contacting me and string em out for fun.

PinkDalek1 11 Jun 2008, 6:22pm

Perhaps you should read this:

'A fool And His Money ... Boiler Room FAQ'
http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=10212932

Then start a new thread on the discussion board linked.

PD

pacman40 12 Jun 2008, 8:23pm

i read that thread thx and would agree i would be a fool if i invested anything with them. what i would like to do is tag them along for as long as possible just to waste their time and posibly get some information to give to the fsa. to be brutally honest i think they so called hard seller is as gullible as they come if he believes half the rubbish i have fed him so far.
is there a specific department in the fsa for dealing with this or is it not really worth bothering. it would be nice to stop it happening to others.

PinkDalek1 12 Jun 2008, 8:57pm

"i read that thread thx ... is there a specific department in the fsa for dealing with this or is it not really worth bothering. it would be nice to stop it happening to others."

Also on the 'A fool And His Money...' board is a direct link to an FSA reporting form, in the announcement box to the right:

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=10212932

See 'Report An Unauthorised Firm'.

PD

GeraintP 06 Jul 2008, 6:51pm

re Goldman and Ross

Had some contact with this company (via my father who they pressured into giving them my number). They ARE on the FSA list of unauthorised companies now (added early June). They try to sell shares in legitimate companies (Dragon Oil was the one they were pimping) at a discount to the market rate. They can sound convincing, as they claim to simply pass on investment advice - you buy shares "directly from the company" and they earn a 2% commission when you take their advice and subsequently sell the shares - but of course the likelihood is you'll not see your money again.

Can't say for sure they're a boiler room - but there's enough uncertainty there for me to leave well alone.

valdirosa 09 Jul 2008, 11:57am

Seisma Oil has been phoning me for 18 months despite telling the caller on at least three occasions that there was no chance I would invest in a US company.
They sent me documents which appear genuine about oil wells and the financial rewards.
I have no evidence they are not genuine but I am surprised that such an apparently successful enterprise should waste so much effort on an obscure UK investor with a very small portfolio,

S3cur1ty 11 Jul 2008, 5:55pm

They dont care much about the size of your portafolio, for if you invest $2000 with them, that is already a profit. Thats what a scam is about.

S3cur1ty 11 Jul 2008, 5:57pm

Next time you get called, just tell them that you are going to contact Interpol, and I promise they´ll never call you back!

S3cur1ty 11 Jul 2008, 5:59pm

Right now they are located in Costa Rica, if you want more details dont hesitate in contacting me.I´ll give you all the clues.

MTomary 30 Jul 2008, 7:48pm

I to was nearly caught out by this investment Seisma Oil Research LLC but after doing some basic research with the local police in Boca Ratan this is where Seisma headquarters are they say there is no sign of life at their premises and it is a multiple company address. What does this tell you

PinkDalek1 30 Jul 2008, 8:49pm

'I to was nearly caught out by this investment Seisma Oil Research LLC but after doing some basic research with the local police in Boca Ratan this is where Seisma headquarters are they say there is no sign of life at their premises and it is a multiple company address. What does this tell you'

It adds meat to what has been said on the linked thread over at 'A fool And His Money...'. It includes comments from a poster who stated 'my name is Justin Solomon and I am the President and managing partner of Seisma Oil Research, LLC ... I take exception to your tarring my company with the same brush you use to slag off boiler rooms' etc and tried to suggest they were not a Boiler Room, despite their inclusion on the FSA's list of 'Unauthorised overseas firms operating in the UK':

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=11037673&sort=whole...

Do have a look at the thread and the board in general.

PD

MTomary 03 Aug 2008, 8:03pm

I have invested with Seismas partner company Future Power Industries in Costa Rica Seisma who apparently have no fixed abode have alledgedly invested 15 million dollars in Future Power Industries. Do you think Ishould be concerned

u3 02 Sep 2008, 12:17am

I have invested with Seisma and to date they have done everything they said they were going to do. This is the first time I came across anything to suggest they are not the real deal. I am going to make contact with the local chamber of commerce and see what I can dig out. They are also registered with Dun and Bradstreet. Could all their partner companies be involved in these scams also? Enermax Inc, 4G companies, Evans Energy.

PinkDalek1 02 Sep 2008, 5:38pm

"I have invested with Seisma and to date they have done everything they said they were going to do. This is the first time I came across anything to suggest they are not the real deal."

Seisma Oil Research LLC were added to the FSA's list of 'Unauthorised overseas firms operating in the UK' on 29 April 2008.

You may find the complete list here:

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Law/Alerts/overs...


PD

MTomary 05 Sep 2008, 5:39pm

The person who thinks Seisma have done all they said they would do must be the President of Seisma Justin Solomon. I have tried to contact all Seismas partner companies in all the office locatons listed on their individual websites and I never got a reply. I think the question must be asked what was it they going to do for the person who apparently is quite happy.

u3 10 Sep 2008, 1:22pm

MTomary I too invested in FPI and I am getting better feed back and responses from Seisma then I ever get from FPI. How long has it been since you were contacted by FPI. Go on to seismas website. There are photos of them filming for the major news channels in the US. Check out USbusiness review magazine there is an articl on Enermax. These companies are registered with the Texas railroad commission and on the SEC. I am more worried about FPI than seisma.

butcombe 12 Sep 2008, 12:39am

I too am a shareholder in FPI and would like to see something happen! However I do have an email from the trade and investment officer of the British consul in San jose who has visited the plant and met with the chief engineer and executive director of fpi in Sept 2007 and also found Gilles and Karina on facebook but they haven't as yet accepted me as a friend!

MTomary 18 Sep 2008, 6:57pm

I als am an investor in FPI and my questions prompted

MTomary 19 Sep 2008, 8:49pm

I also am an investor with FPI and I too was updated on the visit by the British Consul and Procomer who regulates the Free Trade Zone.This is an excert from the letter I received.There was a lack of machinery of any kind in the factory and on my request to know of a probable date when a final market ready product would be available their response hesitated on maybe a year or two, which would not comply with their contractual agreement with Procomer. If the companyhas not begun operations, an administrative process will be convened against the company, which could result in Free Trade Zone status revoked. Same goes if the company fails to reach the agreed level of investment.
This letter is somewhat different and more concerning than the letter the other investor received.
This company FPI gives no updates to their investors, their website has been static for months
I for one am more than a little concerned about my investment.

PinkDalek1 19 Sep 2008, 10:02pm

Future Power Industries are mentioned here (the Scottish Sunday Mail newspaper online):

http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/lifestyle/real-life-stories/2008...

PD

Ps I've also posted this at 'A fool And His Money...' in reply to one of your posts over there (may I suggest you continue any further discussion on the dedicated board, rather than here):

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=11173429&sort=w...

lambtonworm 22 Sep 2008, 7:07pm

i am presently being contacted by European Advisory ref purchace of shares in a company called Carat Premium in the states (oil again) He is very resilient,but will receive a definate no from me! Has anyone else been contacted by said company?

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